[mnet-devel] Grid Of Trust -- pre-design

[Some Guy]

 --- Jim Dixon <jdd at dixons.org> wrote: 
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, [iso-8859-1] Some Guy wrote:
> 
> > Hypothesis:  Ok this will probably annoy you even more than that
> > formula, but I've got an idea that to cover all cells K is O(W^2).
> 
> In the simulation, for W = 2^16, K was about 160 * 4000 = 640,000,
> something over 2^19.  I certainly wouldn't call this O(W^2) == O(2^32),
> something over 4 billion.

You're right, sorry.  But K does seem slightly more than linear.

 
> > By the way I think I know how to make it so that a good user can avoid
> > redoing the hash cash every period, by storing an arbitrarily large
> > file.  This could force the advesary to either redoo all that K hash
> > cashes every iteration or store K*<the file size>.
> >
> > So maybe we let that size be 10GB.  It still takes about a day to get
> > a working ID but then you just store a 10GB file.  Every period you
> > just have to do a quick lookup on your drive.  Of coarse the adversary
> > could also avoid doing the hash cashes, by buying K*10GB of space.
> 
> The adversary doesn't need K drives.  He need one drive per cell, which
> is 2^16, about 64,000.  10G drives in this quantity would cost perhaps
> $20 each, so K 10G drives would cost about $1,640,000.  He would also
> need a 2 Gbps connection to the Internet.  Guesstimated price somewhere
> over $100,000 a month.

Well jeez Jim, if the adversary is actually going to run all those nodes that's fine by me. 
There's no way of stopping him.  If you've got the hardware and you run a node correctly
(according to your  neighbors), you can run it.  Go for it make my day.  How do you know how much
bandwidth he needs?

> > How much is 10PB cost?
> >
> > Storage has the benifit that tieing it up doesn't annoy as much.
> 
> Your end users have to buy a 10G drive each and then dedicate 32K to
> your constant churning of those drives.  You are going to have to fork
> out for a million 10G drives, one for each of your users, or perhaps
> 100,000 100G drives, plus machines, plus rack space in a colo center.
> However you slice it, this would not be cheap.  50,000 1U PCs?  More
> than 1,000 racks?  It has to cost _you_ more than $25 million in up-front
> costs.
> 
> We haven't included the 32 Gbps network cost of driving this huge
> verification program.  I haven't been in the game for a while, but I think
> that that load would put a severe burden on the global Internet. But many
> ISPs would be happy to bid on the contract.  I would guess that it
> wouldn't cost more than something in the tens of millions of dollars a
> year for the service.
> 
> Where does the revenue come from?

Cool, so as long as the adversary doesn't have this kind of revenue we're safe!!!!

Sure a million guys sitting home swapping pron, music and movies will have 10GB each they can
spare.  No problem.


What kills me is that turn around the argument and argue the users have to buy some expensive ass
crap and at the same time argue that it's so cheap for the adversary.  All that matters is the
ratio.  If we stand and fight the good fight and we outnumber any adversary a:b on resources we'll
win, and there will be free press/speach on the net.

If you're argueing a:b = 10:1 so be it.  Bring it on!!!  The only way a rights, laws, or democracy
work is because the vast majority aren't out tring to break them.  I bet I can find 10 times more
resources from people that want to download stuff freely than you can find to try to take down a
specific freesite.

How pessimistic are you what do you think a:b will be?


The network that I want will ensure that the weakest voice will be as strong as strongest.

__________________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Logos und Klingeltöne fürs Handy bei http://sms.yahoo.de


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials.
Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills.  Sign up for IBM's
Free Linux Tutorials.  Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin.
Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278&alloc_id=3371&op=click
_______________________________________________
mnet-devel mailing list
mnet-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mnet-devel